Interview Transcript

Reade (00:01):

Re two. One. Welcome everybody. Thanks so much for joining us here on the growth secrets interview series. I'm here with Kirk EULAR. Kurt and I have have spent a little bit of time talking before this and it's going to be a really great interview for you guys. I'm excited for you to hear what Kurt has to say and learn more about the organizations that he is working on right now. And of course we're going to talk about how he's adapting and his organizations are adapting to this Cove at 19 shutdown, whatever we're calling this period of history that we're living through. So, without further ado, Kurt, thanks so much for joining me today.

Kurt (00:41):

Hey, thanks for having me.

Reade (00:42):

Awesome. Well, Kurt, what'd you do? Us a favor and just let everybody know a little bit about yourself. I want to start with, with learn about the subject of the interview here and then we'll talk about the businesses that you're running.

Kurt (00:56):

Yeah. So I mean visit V, you know, business side of things now, but I I've been blessed to be part of a fair number of very large organizations. So I've built and run marketing at companies from startup to over a half a billion dollars in annual revenue run teams in six continents. Been part of the small team that took a company public for 880 million. Then part of on one side of the other, of dozens of acquisitions. At this point I've grown 10 plus digital communities to more than a hundred thousand, several more than half a million. And I've, because of that, I've, I've been blessed to advise everyone from startup founders to private equity back CEOs to the current president of the United States.

Reade (01:41):

Okay. So a halfway decent resume you got there, Kurt?

Kurt (01:45):

I, I've, I've, I've, I've had some good people help me over time, so it opened some doors. So, but yeah, it is, it sounds really good. We could do an entire episode though on all of the ways that I've failed. I feel like I failed so many times. Most people would crawl on her table and die.

Reade (02:01):

Man, that's so good. I feel like there's this it's like the numerous numerator and the denominator, right? When you look at somebodies successes, it's like that's the numerator. That's what you can see on top. But it's like what's the, what's the ratio look like? And I'd be willing to bet that those with more successes have way more failures than the average person. Right. Relative to to the number of successes. I wouldn't even consider myself to have had many successes, but I know that through the failures and through the scars, man, there's so much that you learn from those and there's so much a value in those experiences. I think they really do go hand in hand. But you're right, that's a conversation that we could spend a whole lot of time on. I'd love to do that one day. But really I'd love to learn about the organizations that that you're running, that you'd like to talk about today.

Kurt (02:54):

Yeah. So I mean I full time, I am chief marketing officer for a technology come private equity backed technology company. But what I really want to talk about today was one, both of a side project is becoming much more of a, a growing entity and and, and an organization I'm part of where I'm the chairman of, but my side project is called chief servants. We're still figuring out exactly what that means. I mean it's really around trying to pull together a group of high achieving servant leaders on part of a CEO group where those of us have run companies at least $10 million or more. And that's really everybody. I would look at that group as part of that. But most people, when I talk to them about servant leadership, they point to nonprofits or they talk to some boss and like what comes doesn't come across that very much is people I feel like don't feel like high achieving and servant leadership go together. And because of that, actually I find we've missed a lot of mentoring opportunities and ability to multiply those high achieving servant leaders that are CEOs, CEOs, founders of companies, and to get more of those. And so we're pulling together a community of likeminded people that made it, you don't have it all figured out yet, but we're trying to figure it out that out together.

Reade (04:10):

That's great. And so is the, is this a nonprofit

Kurt (04:15):

As a business right now? I'd say it's really a kind of glorified Facebook community. We, we are connected to several nonprofits that give us pretty good exposure as we figure it out. We want to scale it, but we don't have a curriculum right now. We have probably 200 or so people that have run pretty sizable organizations or you know, even a couple of them that do run small businesses. But you look at them and you go, man, he or she has figured out how to win at home and work. And if you talk to the people in their sphere, they'd say, you know, she is a servant leader and it's actually great to watch that kind of that community. The one of the examples I give is a guy named Dave here in Atlanta. He runs an organization around a hundred million dollars [inaudible] if you had to look at it, we're in that time right now as you kind of mentioned where he had to look at D did it cost him several million dollars to make the right decision. He would always make the right decision. And so that type of personality where they're going to make the right decision, you would trust them with your personal finances, whether it was personal or work-wise. Like that's hard to get while also finding somebody that's a harsh hard driver to, to grow.

Reade (05:25):

Why do you think that is? Because I've noticed that same thing too. It's like this dissonance we have right where we feel like it we're, if we are trying to be, and I'm going to really use overly simplified language, but like we, we want to be a good person. We want to do what's right, we want to be compassionate and all these things. And, but we're what we're super driven, right? We have successful are ambitions of success and we feel like those are in some way opposed. I disagree with that thinking, but why is that so persistent?

Kurt (05:59):

I think some, it's a little bit we hear from the culture but we also just don't have very many people that that open up the insides do. One of the hardest things for me personally as a, I do not always get this right, but here's mentioned I, I've got a pretty good, you know, background, but if we get on a team call about what I've accomplished, my team has accomplished this week and you're doing checkups, I, it's hard for me to kind of want to talk about that and, and show that cause you know, the humbleness of heart versus sharing what me and my team have done really well. They are, they are different sides. That same coin. And I really, I just don't have a whole lot of good examples. I mean, I kind of started this because I know Cheryl back elder who is the CEO of poppy, Popeye's Louisiana chicken who changed that company as a public company and now she's running a pure one.

Kurt (06:50):

She's the first person that I know that wrote a book that like you read it and it's a die hard see servant leadership book, but talks about the bottom line and growing. A lot of us here in Atlanta, we look at Chick-fil-A and they've been able to do that, but within their culture they're that way. But it's hard to see that difference. We just don't have a lot of people that have opened up to see what that looks like. And just because I've had so many strong mentors over my life that have opened up to me and said, look, I'm going to show you how I steward my time, my resources and my money. And when they look back over time, they did that when they didn't, when they were not extremely successful that they were donating a larger percentage than the average person was. And now that they have much more, that percentage is insane to some very, and but they do the same thing with that time. And most, most of us just don't. I think we're told to be humble so much. We don't miss the other side or miss the other side where it says to be a good mentor, it's fine to not have a podcast or a webpage touts it, but you have to be discipling other people to show them what that looks like in the workplace.

Reade (07:55):

I think that's really good. And I would agree. I think there's the societal impacts too, but, and I think there's also like this, I think what's the term? It's like the survivorship bias or it's like the opposite of the survivorship bias, right? Like the people that, that do well and can achieve they, they tend to just be less likely to talk about it is the best explanation that I can come from. And so with the lack of that available content, there is this perception that those two things don't go together. So it is encouraging that there are people who are willing to say, Hey look this, this is what you need to do. This is how it's done.

Kurt (08:39):

Yeah. And we're trying to figure that out there. There may even be a book out of it at some point. I mean I, I started this endeavor by, I sent out a survey from my website, so like 30 or 40 friends that are, that they're exactly this type of person and now it's from a confirmation bias perspective they are achieving from a a worldly perspective. And it was asking them questions about this, this conflict and what does that look like. And what was great to me was I got a couple of people to respond to right away, but I can't tell you at least half of them if not more. I got apology emails or text messages for them and saying, I have to think about that. And then like over the next 30 to 45 days as responses came in, they were not short responses.

Kurt (09:21):

These were, I mean, some of the people wrote like a page per answer that I did not anticipate that and with the struggle from them. And I was like, I think that there's something there. And, and also made me kind of go back to the question you mentioned that we do have a bias about the survivorship. So the people I reach out to are really successful. And I look at the other side, there's a, there's I say almost kid. I mean he's probably your age. I mean he's not too much younger than me, but early thirties believer now working for AppSumo. But his, his startup that he'd worked on for five years, they, there were, you know, it hasn't worked out the way. So he's gone and found a full time job. This, this guy, because he struggled and he's been in the pits fighting for the last five years and had a product with, we had companies like Porsche, I mean huge customers in some cases, but it just hasn't worked out.

Kurt (10:13):

But he, I mean from a servant leader shift perspective, he's there and I'm confident that if we look in 10 or 20 years, we'll look back and not just what his wife say that he's, he will have been successful, but people that have worked for him would say successful. So I want to create an environment that we can, we can bring him up and say, look, you failed in this way and whether you want to be a sole contributor, a manager, or you want to start something else. My job, my goal is how do I help him multiply himself because he has, he's been in the just fighting for this and that's where people are tested. I mean you take somebody who their first startup worked. Like I, I, I kind of don't want to see their business right now a lot of times because that's going to be really hard. But I wanted the person who has fought for five years where most people would have shut down their business two years then with it where this guy was and he turned around, they found a good product market fit. And for a lot of reasons it made sense to shut it down, but like we need to take him and multiply it. So there's another 10 men and women that, that he's able to raise up with his experiences.

Reade (11:19):

Okay. So that's, that's really good. And it brings up another point that I think the, we have a problem with, right? And it's the timeframe expectations mostly that people put on themselves, right? We have this, we have this this vision and visions. Good. Right? Vision is not bad. We have a vision that we're gonna build something, grow something, achieve something and we want to do it in two years. For three years or before we're 30 or before we're 40, whatever that arbitrary number is. And if we don't get there that time then, and this is if you follow James clear, he talks about this a lot with his atomic habits book, right? Is a goal is just this thing that you either achieve and then you're, you're now you're moving past it and you're, you're got to move the goalposts and do and focus on something else. Or you fall short again of an arbitrary timeframe for a goal and then you're, you're upset about it. Or people get into depression over this, like this career in life. It can be short. I understand that. But like this is a long game, right? This is a marathon. And so I think that's, that is a corrective lens that we could put on. Especially younger business leaders, in my opinion.

Kurt (12:40):

No, I agree with that. And I think, wait, I love the book and I love, I love the concept. A lot of the concepts behind atomic habits, it's too many people focus on goals. And then what happens when you achieve that? You hit your magic number and then like you could retire. What do you do? I've been there. It's like I, I, I've tried retiring twice, took 18 months on sabbatical after I stepped out of, I'll start in one of the first influencer marketing platforms here in Atlanta, 18 months off. And it's like, you can only hike so much and you know, help friends out with their projects and like, it's not about that. It's like you have to love the process and the journey and the journey is hard and, but that's where it's at. It's not about Jews achieving something.

Reade (13:23): important as the [inaudible]. And to use James clears. I love the way he does his like little back, the napkin sketches that that [inaudible] his blogs and stuff is the dots that are kind of all over the place. You know, and it, we expect it to be this directly upward up into the right angle or, or direction and trajectory. But really it's these tiny little things that over time have this up into the right trajectory, but you've got to look out at a wide enough view to be able to truly see it.

Kurt (14:37):

Yeah, and I agree with that and I think part, there's timeframe and there's, I mean there is the amount of work as well. I mean there's a lot I like and Gary Vaynerchuk, there's a lot I don't, but I think one of the things I like them, I do really respect from him. He pushes people on how much on, on how much work it takes to be successful. I completely believe in intentional rest. But I also think about like, so with w with COBIT and coronavirus going on right now where we're at home. So in last week I put down two dump trucks of mulch in my yard. I still need another one. But on Friday and Saturday I put this large dump truck of mulch and spread it. The end of the day my wife and I are catching up in the porch and she was commenting about how much work was being done and ask me a few questions and then I thought about it.

Kurt (15:21):

Well it was a lot of work, but like I was a division one athlete in three sports, cross country indoor and outdoor track. The amount of exercise I did in addition to classes at Vanderbilt in any single day was, was more work than what I did. Putting down like that Saturday for you know, half the truck of mulch. And I'm like, wow, like how much did that make me kind of revisit? Like I'm not working as hard now in my life as I have at other times. And yet, you know, some of my neighbors looked at any like the, he should just hire that out. Well no, this is my job. It's my yard. Plus we have time now coconut. So, yeah.

Reade (15:57):

Yeah. Well, okay, so you, you brought up two things that I love to talk about. One of them is, is college sports. I played very small college basketball. I'm, I'm proud to talk about it though. I wouldn't wouldn't put up my record against many other people, especially those who played division one. But I will say this [inaudible] taught me a perspective on hard work and discipline that I don't know that you can get very many other places because you're right, you're, you're having to go to class and actually study, right? You went to Vanderbilt, I went to Emirate. You're actually really being challenged academically. And you're being challenged physically. So going through that, that mental, physical strain, it does prepare you for a lot in, in life. We could, I'm sure we could talk about that for a long time, but the other thing you touched on that I think we have to, we have to talk about is what, what are, what are the, those servant leaders that you're talking about, how are they shifting and pivoting and being dynamic during this COBIT 19 shutdown the covert crisis shelter in place, whatever name the history books will put on this, you know, what are some of the things that you're doing and that, that, that the people that you're interacting with are doing that perhaps the folks watching this now can learn from and apply?

Kurt (17:26):

Yeah, good question. I think a lot of it is from a community perspective. I got off a call or a later day, I mentioned with Charlie pep rally and well known angel investor here in Atlanta for decades and he literally pulled, he, he'd pulled together, you know, I'm part of three groups that are very similar to that one where it's leaders at companies that are having very transparent conversations, discussions we're having pass forward. What does that look like for cash and a potential layoff? Not potential layoff the loans. And we're opening that up. And in some cases also were, maybe you don't know everybody on the call. And so we're able to come back and filter and be a little more transparent when we send it through one person to anonymize some of the conversation that we're having. That transparency is something that that's kind of rare to get a lot of times.

Kurt (18:17):

But with that, what I'm hearing from a lot of those servant leaders is I think the correct response is, I don't know, like Charlie's great, he's a CPA by trade, so he's about cash and what does that look like from a burn percent then that's great, but if it needs, does he, he doesn't know what's going to happen. And so we're talking scenarios and that's a lot of the conversations that I'm having as well. So my, you know, the other organization I'm part of is the main American movement. And so we represent 20,000 American source companies that qualify to use that. Maybe we'll say label, we reach 700,000 consumers and a monthly basis. Some, I've got a group of those that we talk with as well and we're, we're being very transparent about what, what that looks like. In some cases they're struggling and in other cases, like on the made America side, they have more business than they can think of right now. It made an American movement acquired a large eCommerce site called [inaudible] made in america.co and traffic on that site up 50% month over month right now this year. Like that's huge. And it's like how do you actually fulfill orders for some of those brands and sell through that site one when your order flow is twice what it was in December, which was a big month. And yet you can't have, you know, you can only have a fraction of the people come into your warehouse.

Reade (19:37):

Yeah. So you're, that's the perfect answer that I think a lot of leaders are for the first time. Reade (19:47): I think being really okay with is that we don't know what the next few months is going to look like. Nobody walking around today has experience dealing with economic climate and business activity during a global pandemic. Nobody knows exactly how this thing is going to go or what they should do. And so the right answer is that very transparent. Hey guys, I don't know what three months from now is going to look like Kurt. I sat down with every one of my clients and we had spent all this time putting together 2020 marketing campaigns back in November and December and we had to tear them up and start all over again. Which would have been a daunting task if we had to come up with a new annual plan. But there's no point in doing a new annual plan. We focus on a few weeks at a time, right? And so leaders having to be really dynamic and really nimble and being super transparent with their people saying, we are going to go as far into the tunnel as our flashlight will show us. Right? And then when we get further, we'll have more light, right? And then when we get further, and hopefully we'll see a light at the end of the tunnel, I think is the end of that analogy. I assume it's got to be around the corner at some point.

Reade (21:08):

Mmm. But that's good. So, so tell us more about the maiden America organization. This, this I think is not only really interesting but probably more relevant and more important than it's ever been, especially given what's going on. So I'd love to learn more about that.

Kurt (21:28):

Yeah. So to a large degree, I mean we're, I mean, you think about it, we're just, we're the largest independent organization, kind of like a chamber of commerce in some ways, although I don't know any chamber of commerce in the country that consumers actually care about. And so I mean, and I've been part of several chambers before and the businesses and, and done well that from a business perspective, but it's a lot of times find businesses helping businesses. And in this case it was started by a woman named Margaret, a Mendoza that my wife and I are now both good friends with. And my wife actually was the marketer that took the organization from one of, like eight or nine organizations five years ago to being the organization that anybody cares about. So when president Trump came on board, he focused on American jobs, that was one of things that's really important to him.

Kurt (22:16):

And so he had advisors around him that said, if you could help the small percentage of companies that do everything here, then you're going to help all of the companies that also outsource and do elsewhere, which is, you know, there are very few that just do everything somewhere else in the country or everywhere else in the world and a very small percentage do everything here and everybody else's in between. And so when he reached out and the his administration reached out to a dozen people asking who can help us pull together a round table symposium on this, a dozen people, I'll give you the answer of either me margarita or the made in America movement, which was great, and let us some really cut fun conversations and time with the white house. But that's where the organization has been. And where it's really grown to now is literally this large place where we tell a lot of stories about companies that choose to do build everything here.

Kurt (23:05):

Sometimes that's more expensive, sometimes they can make more money out. And right now it's also shifting much more to supply chain resilience. Like so much of our drugs and our medical equipment are made elsewhere. And so even the federal government's looking at should they force some of that to move back here? And so we're really able to just tell the stories of companies that have done this well. So, and even some examples like that, like I think it's been talked about on the media a little bit, but like, you know, my pillow, I mean they're an amazing company and they've pivoted their business entirely to start making masks. We have several other companies that are doing that same thing and we're, we're pleased to see that right now and hope to see even more reassuring come in the future. Reade (23:47): So this has been the, the really encouraging, you know, the whole like restoring faith in, in humanity and restoring faith in, in America that I've seen come out of this is, and I've seen it on my, on a national level, I've seen it in my local community, you know, people really making a concerted effort to support local businesses and support American made products and supporting their neighbors and offering to, I mean, I've seen my newsfeed is full of, you know, Hey, if you're, if you're concerned about, you know, if you're, if you're concerned about putting food on the table, if you're concerned about paying your mortgage, if you're concerned about paying your bills, you know, send me a private message, you know, no question. I mean, I'm just seeing all this kind of stuff and where can we, how can we support you, mr restaurant owner, whose business has been cut by 88% over the last, you know, three weeks. You know, and I've seen so much of this and it's been moving. It's been really neat to see that groundswell of support for one another. I, I hate that it took a global pandemic to pull that out, but hopefully that's one of those things that can stay right, that, that collaborative arm and arm movement.

Kurt (25:06):

Yeah, I, I agree with that. It's been great to see. We see it within our community. I see the same thing on my personal feed as you do. And one of the things that I've been really encouraged was we're were always telling me you'll say stories and there's parts of them that I get to talk about, whether as a speaker or writing for USA today,

Reade (25:25):

That Kurt (25:25):

A lot of times it doesn't resonate with the average consumer. Cause I mean, a lot of times people do just buy made in the USA because either they care about it's, it's a patriotic feeling for them. Across the world. There's a lot believes that, you know, there's a much higher quality standard, which is kind of why country of origin exists for on products. But you know, one of the things I talked about in the USA today article like probably three years ago was Hey, like if you want to buy made in the USA because the patriotic feeling, that's great, but if you care about the environment, you need to not buy made in China or made in Vietnam a lot of times because their environmental standards are nowhere there. They're not even close to anything we have here. And if you care about, you know, whether it's child or slave labor or work, Workman work or safement safety issues, sorry, you want to buy made in USA made in Europe, made in Japan.

Kurt (26:17): My brother lost his arm 43 years ago in a factory accident and that was sad. But OSHA adjusted a lot of the issues that caused that accident so that other people that in suffer from that, that doesn't exist in China right now. And so because so many people are concerned about made in China and things right now [inaudible] we've, we've been able to get a lot broader voice where people are now paying attention to those and go, Oh, I actually do care about the environment. I care about, you know, work or work or safety. [inaudible] That's why I want to now look at, you know, products are made here, you know, denim jeans, like from diamond gusset jeans and blue Ridge, Tennessee because I'm not having to worry about sweat sweatshops in Southeast Asia. Hmm.

Reade (27:03):

So in my experience, Mmm. I think the biggest hurdle for people to overcome, well, I think, I think it's hard to ignore the, the fact that sometimes the, it can be more expensive to buy American. I think, and we can just kind of set that aside, right? Cause that is what it is. And, and I've spent some time working in the manufacturing space and you know, I, I get that right. I mean, it's, it's really difficult to compete on price. But I think another thing that people have trouble overcoming is, is they just don't know how, right. How can they make sure that they are buying from American made or, or products that are American made. And, and I, I assume that that's the work that you guys are doing and are doing a great job of. But for the folks who are watching this, how can they do that?

Kurt (27:54):

Oh, it is actually looking at labels and it's not being deceived by let's say at least, you know, gray hat marketers that are, maybe they're not intentionally being deceiving, but I think some cases that they are the made in USA label or made in Japan or made in Germany. Those are all labels that are controlled by the government for by the government for, for what qualifies. And that's a completely, like, there's legal standards and there's major implications for a company that does that differently. Well, if you look at certain things like they, one example that just jumps out to me all the time is craftsman tools. Well, you know, when that, when I was young, craftsman tools are made in the USA. And now if you go to, if you go to a home Depot or Lowe's and you look at a craftsman display, you asked the people that walk by and nine out of 10 people will look at the way that they show assembled in the USA, designed in the USA on their stickers that are very blatant on there.

Kurt (28:50):

Maybe that, maybe, I'm not even saying that they're being deceiving but, but there's a gray area there that nine out of 10 consumers will tell me that they think that that's made in the USA. And when I point out the difference between assembled in the USA or designing USA or made in the USA with global parts like that, that may mean that that 5% or nothing of it's really done here on effort perspective and is highly different than when you look at something like Brian I. Love talking about is Liberty tabletops. They're the only flatware company made in the USA. The only, if you want silverware made in the USA, there's one company [inaudible] that is entirely different than somebody that's using, you know, stainless steel and steel source from other countries. And then assembled here. They do everything here in the USA. They employ everybody here. And the labels just mean something slightly different and it takes at one consumers to just look at that in some cases. Call out brands where you do think that they're being deceitful. We're seeing more and more people in our consumer and our community tag us on social media where they'll take a picture of something where it feels like the brands not being genuine and they'll tag them, call out the brand, maybe call out Walmart if it's sold there and then they'll tag us.

Reade (30:03):

That's great. Yeah, I think yeah, I think there's a lot of people that want to participate more but they just don't know how. So yeah, if we can all kind of work together and do exactly that. And I've seen that same that it's, it's not untrue that it's assembled any in the USA or that it's whatever in the USA, but, but that is maybe just

Kurt (30:29):

It just, it means, yeah, it means completely different than me in the USA made in USA. A product has to be almost entirely source, assemble design. Everything here. There are a few exclusions from that. The government lets it come down a little bit more. But the brands we talk about are usually made in entirely here for not just like the items but the entire brand group. We're trying to make it easier for people to find that as well. We there was another sister organization called a I've mentioned called ma made in america.co. You can find them online or Facebook. That was started by a guy named Degan literally as a, as a pet project to tell the stories of these brands. And it grew up big enough, it needed help. And so a major brand called Bromwell acquired them, brought them in, shepherded them for a couple of years and then said this is not our core business, who wants, who, who, who wants to acquire these assets.

Kurt (31:26):

And so we acquire their community, the e-comm shop because we're independent. And it felt a little weird for some brands working with an eCom shop firm owned by a competitive raps. And now this case, we're, we are that independent or you know, place. And no matter who you are, you can go to maiden america.co and find brands you can find, of course like Liberty tabletop, as I mentioned on their own website and tons of stores. Or now you go to that site online and find hundreds of brands and know that everything on that site is made in America.

Reade (31:58):

Awesome. And is there a process that people can go through, like if they're watching this right now and they're like I would like to, I would like to become a 100% made in America. Maybe their business is Mmm. It is 80% there. Right. But, but they're looking for ways that they can economically yeah. The rest of the way where, what should they do?

Kurt (32:23):

They can reach out to us. That's one thing. We, we will at least connect them with people that can help them. In some cases we may be able to help them directly. A lot of our members are very are very kind of, have that servant leadership type as well. So as long as it's not a direct competitor, they will mentor other other companies. So I mentioned diamond gusset jeans, they're based in blue Ridge, Tennessee. Hey they, they will mentor other people through the decisions and some of the factoring issues that they've gone through to, to help shift that business. But we're also close partners with the reassuring initiative. So Harry, there is another great resource and you can reach out to the restoring initiative by finding them a Google or come to us and we'll connect you to Harry. Harry will walk companies through, Hey, you have a factory in Vietnam or you're outsourcing to Vietnam and to make t-shirts will help.

Kurt (33:11):

And he'll give you guidance to move that here economically. And then we kind of help a lot of, little bit more on the marketing side. Cause you mentioned cost, it's a cost quality perspective. And so one of the examples I give is as a marketer, like you, when you buy swag, you think about impressions. When we do, when we buy things, digital media, well I can go buy a stainless steel cup and put a low, low go on it and I can have that source in China. And it may only last 12 months to 18 months or I can find that same cup, pay a little bit more here and it'll last for five to 10 years. It's a, my cost per impression goes way down. The same thing applies for pens or tee shirts or anything like that and that comes in place with brands as, I mean with a lot of the retailers, I worked with wall a Walmart when they were personal navigation devices with a big thing Darman Magellan units.

Kurt (34:01):

Yeah, and so we're in having discussions. We sold the navigation data sourcing to a lot of those vendors and Walmart was really clear. If we can hit a price point of 99 or $149 people will not even consider how long it will last. They will just buy it. It's a no brainer decision. Yeah. At the same time when Garmins were being settled anywhere else for three, four, $500 or more. The only way that that got done was cheaper components. But Walmart knew people would buy it without thinking about it because they would just buy another one in a year. I like that. That's a decision that consumers get to be part of by talking about, Hey, I bought this product and it was made in China and it fell apart. I mean, I know that's happened with some made in America products as well. It's just much less likely.

Reade (34:46):

Right? Yeah. I won't, I won't say the brand because I'm not 100% sure it's made in America, but I have a cup on my desk that's similar to the one you have. And I bought this thing when my wife and I were in key West on our honeymoon and that was I think almost six years ago. Yeah. Right. And, and so, and not paid a lot more than the $10 one at Walmart for sure. But if I, and I've got stuff downstairs that they, it come apart just by going through the dishwasher a couple of times. Yeah. Right.

Kurt (35:23): I am bombing. I don't buy everything van USA myself as well. I weigh that. But I think it's important for people to weigh that, that quality a discussion. Yeah. I mean I made the mistake of buying swag for our marketing agency that's under my holding company made in China. And or made overseas like somewhere in, in East Asia. And yeah, run through these foster or once or twice it starts bubbling. Things go place or you work with somebody that from the performance products, a association that may source from a company like Tervis services made in the USA. And not only like as a consumer, we know Tervis well, I mean, you can send them back a product, but if it has an issue, which is rare, they'll replace it. If it's a terms of cop, they'll replace it. They don't even care when you bought it.

Kurt (36:08):

And that's why you're like from a swag perspective, now my wife and I, if we, if we buy swag, we make sure we look from for one of the those swag companies, the performance products, industries that's not for imprint, where it's going to be made in China and a cheap product. We go for the longer impressions and then we give them our two people work for the agency and our teams clients, Miguel, it falls apart. Let us know. We'll give you another one because we know that [inaudible] the company will just reimburse us for it.

Reade (36:38):

That's great. That's great. Well, Kurt, this has been a really awesome conversation. I want to be sensitive of your time, so I know we got a wrap up. So let everybody know if you would, how they can learn more about you, how they can follow you or connect with you and these organizations that you're leading.

Kurt (36:53):

Yeah, so I mean my personal website is kind of the hub for everything that I'm connected to. So you can go to Kurt eular.com that's K U R T U H L, I r.com. I'm sure you'll link to it. And that kind of gives you easy access to finding me on LinkedIn, Instagram. And from there you can also just Google the made in America movement or search for made in America movement on Facebook. And then we'll pop up are between our communities. We touch 300,000 consumers. And so we love just telling the stories of both consumers and their experience and a lot of the brands as well.

Reade** (37:26):

That's awesome. And yeah, absolutely. I'll definitely link to that website down in the comments guys, if you're watching this on Facebook, you're watching it on YouTube, it'll be in the video description and on podcasts it'll be in the show notes. Kurt, this has been awesome. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I know that the world has been flipped upside down these days. So and I think, I think we [inaudible] talked about doing this. Maybe it was after all this happened, but it could have been before. But either way I appreciate you making the time. It's been a good chat.

Kurt (37:59):

Yeah. Well I'll talk with you. Thanks man.

Reade (38:01):

Awesome. Well guys, if you watch this on Facebook live, do me a favor and just leave a comment that says live. And if you're watching the replay later on, leave a comment that says, replay helps us understand when is the best time to do these Facebook live interviews. If you have any questions for Kurt or myself about this, shoot me a note. We'll be happy to answer any questions and I'll be happy to put you in touch with Kurt. Kurt, thank you so much and everybody, thank you for watching.